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toilet paper drop from plane

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The father of a Westwood Regional High School student, who was piloting the Cessna 172S will be charged with a fourth-degree crime for violating state aviation codes (www.northjersey.com) עוד...

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muddspike
muddspike 1
With proper notice and clean-up (Biodegradable TP) I see no issue or problem here. AOPA appears to indorse this activity.http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2013/June/1/Technique-Mischief-with-a-purpose
bovineone
Jeff Lawson 0
Sec. 91.15 — Dropping objects. "However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property." It doesn't seem that toilet paper could cause damage or injury. Wonder what his altitude was...
AirmanElmo
AirmanElmo 0
State aviation codes? I thought FARs/AIMs took precedence?
Pepsi
Aaron Barthol 0
I don't understand why he would do choose to "practice" something like this over an athletic field that was populated with people at the time. He was just asking for trouble. Of course people are going to worry about their safety. Toilet paper is biodegradable, why not go out to some farm field in the middle of no where and practice this stuff. Toilet paper and airplanes can be fun, but only when proper safety precautions are taken. Personally, to have fun I take rolls of toilet paper up in my airplane, toss them out the window, and proceed to cut them with the airplane as each streams to the ground. It is loads of fun, but done at a safe altitude and always over rural areas. I think he should have thought this through a little more.
RiverAviation
RiverAviation 0
This guy had good intentions and at no point compromised safety. Unfortunately he is among many other pilots who are complacent with aviation and how much of the general public don't understand it. To a pilot this is a benign maneuver of a point. To a soccer mom this is the second coming of Al Queida. If he was hurling pumpkins out of his plane for Halloween, then i may be a little concerned.
sfjaero
SF Johannsen 0
I bet the Texas States Attorney or anyone else involved is not going to live this one down in the office or with buddies. Instead of pass me the grey paupon it's going to be more like, "Hey, can you pass me the Charmin."
Seriously, not good judgement on Dad's part, but fine the pilot flying (making bad judegment call) and make a note on his record, but not in TP.
We (Texas and the US) have more important issues to focus and spend money on, and this is not one of them.
SLagonia
SLagonia 0
Much ado about nothing!
cfiasmeli
cfiasmeli 0
We have more to fear from the hysteria of the soccer moms than anything that could be squeezed out of the window of a 172. Let's get a grip on reality.
joelr
Joel Rodriguez 0
Did this pilot use poor judgment... Yes he did.

Was it all with good intentions... Most likely.

Slap him on the wrist, explain to him how this could have gone wrong, make it a lesson, so this does not happen again, we all move on, and we all enjoy some good ole' football games.
capnaux
Eric Auxier 0
We used to do "toilet paper target drops" in my college aviation program way back when. This is, as SLagonia said, Much ado about nothing! Let the guy go.
old51crow
Matthew Thrasher 0
Another Herb Tarlek wannna-be, good thing he could get a hold of some turkeys.
pjumes
pjumes 0
After reading this jaded article from NJ, I can say that errors were made on both sides of the “event”. First, simple communication between the pilot and the school should have established with a ground spotter (with radio) on site to squelch any hysteria as well as ATC that a “photo” flight was to be conducted in the area. Second, the police over reacted just as they did with the Kings in CA (thus, every plane has to be RE-registered with the FAA) lastly (and this is important) the police located him THROUGH FACEBOOK. You just Gotta love big brother. Below are the state “laws” of NJ that govern this “event” What needs to be established is the term “thickly”. I would assume the term is grey and subjective just like the prosecutor likes it.
The FAR’s that pertains to this is 91.13 and 119. The catch all that the FAA uses is the 91.13, careless and reckless operation of an aircraft. Next we have (and this Is only my opinion) minimum safe altitudes. 91.119. His altitude (if can be determined) would be another thing they could/will go after him for.
6:2-7. Liability for injuries to person or property; lien on aircraft; mortgagees, vendors and trustees not deemed owners
The owner of every aircraft which is operated over the land or waters of this State is absolutely liable for injuries to persons or property on the land or water beneath, caused by ascent, descent, or flight of the aircraft, or the dropping or falling of any object therefrom, whether such owner was negligent or not, unless the injury is caused in whole or in part by the negligence of the person injured, or of the owner or bailee of the property injured. If the aircraft is leased at the time of the injury to person or property, both owner and lessee shall be liable, and they may be sued jointly, or either or both of them may be sued separately. An airman who is not the owner or lessee shall be liable only for the consequences of his own negligence. The injured person, or owner or bailee of the injured property, shall have a lien on the aircraft causing the injury to the extent of the damage caused by the aircraft or object falling from it. A chattel mortgagee, conditional vendor or trustee under an equipment trust, of any aircraft, not in possession of such aircraft, shall not be deemed an owner within the provisions of this section
6:2-11. Acrobatic stunts; low flying over public gatherings prohibited; penalty
Any airman or passenger who, while in flight over a thickly inhabited area or over a public gathering within this state, shall engage in trick or acrobatic flying, or in any acrobatic feat, or shall, except while in landing or taking off, fly at such a low level as to endanger the persons on the surface beneath, or drop any object except loose sand or water ballast, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or imprisonment for not more than one year, or both.
91.15 Dropping objects.
No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property.
91.13 Careless or reckless operation.
(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

(b) Aircraft operations other than for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft, other than for the purpose of air navigation, on any part of the surface of an airport used by aircraft for air commerce (including areas used by those aircraft for receiving or discharging persons or cargo), in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.
91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
skykingsp210
skykingsp210 0
Our society is just getting nuts. The pilot met no harm. No harm was done. The general public does not understand how aviation works, size of aircraft, height of aircraft and so on. The fun is being taken away from general aviation.
Dallasjayhawk
Brad Johnson 0
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly" (Arthur Carlson, Station Manager, WKRP in Cincinnati).
Wingscrubber
Wingscrubber 0
Wrong time and place for this. There are such a thing as 'flour bombing' competitions which are a strictly on-airport affair for this kind of antics. THANKS buddy for scaring the s*** out of the masses and worsening the image of GA even more. Pretty soon now we'll all have to give the TSA a call to ask permission each time we fly.
gruntusmc
thomas stephens 0
What a waste of time and ink. If this kind of effort was made to secure our borders, stop the drug flow into this country, and shut down the crack houses and dealers we would accomplish much more. I'm more afraid of what is happening to our society, especially many of our kids that get involved with gangs, than I am of any low flying cessna. However, the pilot would have felt pretty funny if a couple of F18s showed up next to him to escort him back to the airport.
skyken
skyken 0
Gene Glascock (Glascock)
Thursday (10/14) 16:30 EDT
Should be this fools (sic) last flight. How stupid can you be.

Why would you say this? Were you ever guilty of a faux pas? Have you ever gone through a yellow light 1 millisecond after it turned red? The guy's motives were benign and he did not injure anyone or destroy any property. He should have informed people in the area and checked with the GADO first though. But he's a private pilot and his level of professionalism ends there.
skyken
skyken 0
Gene Glascock (Glascock)
Thursday (10/14) 16:30 EDT
Should be this fools (sic) last flight. How stupid can you be.

Why would you say this? Were you ever guilty of a faux pas? Have you ever gone through a yellow light 1 millisecond after it turned red? The guy's motives were benign and he did not injure anyone or destroy any property. He should have informed people in the area and checked with the GADO first though. But he's a private pilot and his level of professionalism ends there.
pa32rt300
Paul Reilly 0
I agree that probably (possibly) no harm was intended but you can't be going around chucking stuff out of an aircraft regardless of what it is made on and what your intention was. The people on the ground have a genuine expectation that they're not going to get hit by anything from overhead. The rule should really read that you must have a permit for any object to be dropped from an aircraft, rather than just in a manner not violating safety etc.

Sounds to me like it was more of a show-off thing.

As for the guy that posted dropping toilet paper and then flying through it to cut it up.... what you.. friggin nuts???? Not a good idea and I bet the Feds would be interested in talking to you. Just because there's not a rule in the FAR's about runnig into airborne stuff shouldn't mean it's legal or prudent to do so. The rule should be "Don't be a friggin IDIOT or a SHOW-OFF while operating an aircraft" Doesn't anyone understand what a privilege it is to be given authorization to manouver a chunk of metal around in the sky?

Come on guys (and gals), be smart or you'll get even more restrictions slapped on us.
mcatanese
Marc Catanese 0
Paul...what privilege is it? We earned our licenses and the skies are owned by no one. Part of them are controlled by the Feds but at his altitude, he was likely in class G which is uncontrolled anyway. He wasn't at a low enough altitude to be a threat so no violation there. You CAN drop things from aircraft as long as there is no potential harm. It didn't say, but he may have dropped it in a part of the field away from people. As far as the states rules, it says no ACROBATIC flight over a gathering of people. This was NOT acrobatic. There was no flight restriction put in place over this area so thats out. The only thing he was guilty of is bad judgement because people nowadays live in fear and cry out to throw the book at the guy for scaring them. Exactly what is the town, state or FAA going to do about a potential terrorist who wants to fly a small plane? Not a damn thing. You can't stop someone who has little or no regard for life. All you can do is take solice in the fact that a terrorist isn't going to waste him/her time dropping something over a HS football field.
pa32rt300
Paul Reilly 0
Have you heard the term "Exercise the privilege" before. Piloting is not a "right", it's a privilege and anyone who doesn't understand that, doesnt take it seriously enough and shouldn't be allowed to fly a chunk of metal over anyone's head or property. If you have "earned a pilot's license" you'll be able to read right in the middle of it where it states "exercise the privileges"
muddspike
muddspike 1
With proper notice and clean-up (Biodegradable TP) I see no issue or problem here. AOPA appears to indorse this activity://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2013/June/1/Technique-Mischief-with-a-purpose
pa32rt300
Paul Reilly 0
Have you heard the term "Exercise the privilege" before. Piloting is not a "right", it's a privilege and anyone who doesn't understand that, doesnt take it seriously enough and shouldn't be allowed to fly a chunk of metal over anyone's head or property. If you have "earned a pilot's license" you'll be able to read right in the middle of it where it states "exercise the privileges"
N5827P
N5827P 0
Did he use poor judgement? Probably. Was it hazardous or meant to be? Don't be ridiculous. Talk about over-reaction. Probably had 10 of that cities "finest" on site. Police claim they can't find serious criminals due to lack of staff, but they all show up for harmless prank. No wonder they can't find armed-robbers, rapists, etc. Tell the kid the proper way to do something like this in the future and let him go. Quit trying to get your police department on CNN about some dumb, but harmless, stunt.
mcatanese
Marc Catanese 0
Correct Paul. Dont want to play semantics with you. Just that you are making your own call as to what is sound judgement in so violating this "privilege". For instance...more of a "show-off" thing. Like you never have worn specific clothing/jewelry or driven fast at a green light or something just the "show off". Who cares?

Then you comment on flying through toilet paper and that the Feds would want to talk with someone who does that. The Feds would likely say "thats cool" cuz there is no violation there. Aviation has had a stigma on it for a long time. Comments such as these from the non-flying community are sad. If you want to make harsh comments, at least know the rules. Now I have to go fly my chunk of metal.
Linecrew
Ernie Szelepcsenyi 0
Paul Reilly (pa32rt300)
Friday (10/15) 12:20
"As for the guy that posted dropping toilet paper and then flying through it to cut it up.... what you.. friggin nuts???? Not a good idea and I bet the Feds would be interested in talking to you. Just because there's not a rule in the FAR's about runnig into airborne stuff shouldn't mean it's legal or prudent to do so. The rule should be "Don't be a friggin IDIOT or a SHOW-OFF while operating an aircraft" Doesn't anyone understand what a privilege it is to be given authorization to manouver a chunk of metal around in the sky?"

Paul, he was referrring to the professionals at the Old Rhinebeck airfield (http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/). Cutting a strip of falling tiolet paper with a wing is actually not dangerous at all. The TP doesn't have enough density to harm the slow moving aircraft and falls slow enough that it doesn't require a lot of aggressive maneuvering. What is a lot more dangerous is the low altitutde inverted or knife-edge-pass ribbon cuts you see at airshows but if this is done by a highly skilled, professional demonstration pilot, the risk is mitigated. Maybe you should do a little bit more research before you call someone out like that...lest you yourself end up appearing to be "friggin nuts". Just sayin...
Linecrew
Ernie Szelepcsenyi 0
Paul Reilly (pa32rt300)
Friday (10/15) 12:20
"As for the guy that posted dropping toilet paper and then flying through it to cut it up.... what you.. friggin nuts???? Not a good idea and I bet the Feds would be interested in talking to you. Just because there's not a rule in the FAR's about runnig into airborne stuff shouldn't mean it's legal or prudent to do so. The rule should be "Don't be a friggin IDIOT or a SHOW-OFF while operating an aircraft" Doesn't anyone understand what a privilege it is to be given authorization to manouver a chunk of metal around in the sky?"

Paul, he was referrring to the professionals at the Old Rhinebeck airfield (http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/). Cutting a strip of falling tiolet paper with a wing is actually not dangerous at all. The TP doesn't have enough density to harm the slow moving aircraft and falls slow enough that it doesn't require a lot of aggressive maneuvering. What is a lot more dangerous is the low altitutde inverted or knife-edge-pass ribbon cuts you see at airshows but if this is done by a highly skilled, professional demonstration pilot, the risk is mitigated. Maybe you should do a little bit more research before you call someone out like that...lest you yourself end up appearing to be "friggin nuts". Just sayin...
mcatanese
Marc Catanese 0
Correct Paul. Dont want to play semantics with you. Just that you are making your own call as to what is sound judgement in so violating this "privilege". For instance...more of a "show-off" thing. Like you never have worn specific clothing/jewelry or driven fast at a green light or something just the "show off". Who cares?

Then you comment on flying through toilet paper and that the Feds would want to talk with someone who does that. The Feds would likely say "thats cool" cuz there is no violation there. Aviation has had a stigma on it for a long time. Comments such as these from the non-flying community are sad. If you want to make harsh comments, at least know the rules. Now I have to go fly my chunk of metal.
Linecrew
Ernie Szelepcsenyi 0
Paul Reilly (pa32rt300)
Friday (10/15) 12:20
"As for the guy that posted dropping toilet paper and then flying through it to cut it up.... what you.. friggin nuts???? Not a good idea and I bet the Feds would be interested in talking to you. Just because there's not a rule in the FAR's about runnig into airborne stuff shouldn't mean it's legal or prudent to do so. The rule should be "Don't be a friggin IDIOT or a SHOW-OFF while operating an aircraft" Doesn't anyone understand what a privilege it is to be given authorization to manouver a chunk of metal around in the sky?"

Paul, he was referrring to the professionals at the Old Rhinebeck airfield (http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/). Cutting a strip of falling tiolet paper with a wing is actually not dangerous at all. The TP doesn't have enough density to harm the slow moving aircraft and falls slow enough that it doesn't require a lot of aggressive maneuvering. What is a lot more dangerous is the low altitutde inverted or knife-edge-pass ribbon cuts you see at airshows but if this is done by a highly skilled, professional demonstration pilot, the risk is mitigated. Maybe you should do a little bit more research before you call someone out like that...lest you yourself end up appearing to be "friggin nuts". Just sayin...
Linecrew
Ernie Szelepcsenyi 0
Paul Reilly (pa32rt300)
Friday (10/15) 12:20
"As for the guy that posted dropping toilet paper and then flying through it to cut it up.... what you.. friggin nuts???? Not a good idea and I bet the Feds would be interested in talking to you. Just because there's not a rule in the FAR's about runnig into airborne stuff shouldn't mean it's legal or prudent to do so. The rule should be "Don't be a friggin IDIOT or a SHOW-OFF while operating an aircraft" Doesn't anyone understand what a privilege it is to be given authorization to manouver a chunk of metal around in the sky?"

Paul, he was referrring to the professionals at the Old Rhinebeck airfield (http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/). Cutting a strip of falling tiolet paper with a wing is actually not dangerous at all. The TP doesn't have enough density to harm the slow moving aircraft and falls slow enough that it doesn't require a lot of aggressive maneuvering. What is a lot more dangerous is the low altitutde inverted or knife-edge-pass ribbon cuts you see at airshows but if this is done by a highly skilled, professional demonstration pilot, the risk is mitigated. Maybe you should do a little bit more research before you call someone out like that...lest you yourself end up appearing to be "friggin nuts". Just sayin...
mcatanese
Marc Catanese 0
Correct Paul. Dont want to play semantics with you. Just that you are making your own call as to what is sound judgement in so violating this "privilege". For instance...more of a "show-off" thing. Like you never have worn specific clothing/jewelry or driven fast at a green light or something just the "show off". Who cares?

Then you comment on flying through toilet paper and that the Feds would want to talk with someone who does that. The Feds would likely say "thats cool" cuz there is no violation there. Aviation has had a stigma on it for a long time. Comments such as these from the non-flying community are sad. If you want to make harsh comments, at least know the rules. Now I have to go fly my chunk of metal.
mcatanese
Marc Catanese 0
Correct Paul. Dont want to play semantics with you. Just that you are making your own call as to what is sound judgement in so violating this "privilege". For instance...more of a "show-off" thing. Like you never have worn specific clothing/jewelry or driven fast at a green light or something just the "show off". Who cares?

Then you comment on flying through toilet paper and that the Feds would want to talk with someone who does that. The Feds would likely say "thats cool" cuz there is no violation there. Aviation has had a stigma on it for a long time. Comments such as these from the non-flying community are sad. If you want to make harsh comments, at least know the rules. Now I have to go fly my chunk of metal.
pa32rt300
Paul Reilly 0
To each his own good judgement
Linecrew
Ernie Szelepcsenyi 0
Now was that so hard? ;o )
pa32rt300
Paul Reilly 0
Ernie, you might want to re-read what he said he does himself, with his private license
jimquinndallas
Jim Quinn 0
30+ years ago a teenaged, licensed pilot did the same thing over a Dallas suburban high school during a game. He bombed his own fellow students for a gag. Noboby from the home team complained, evidently, however someone did. The owner was facing some fairly serious court action, so he "agreed" to sell the aircraft because of this stunt. The pilot who flew the plane with the owners permission didn't get into much trouble from the authorities, however. The pilot was the owner's son, and the sale of the airplane hit pretty hard. My father was a friend of the owner and relayed the story to me. What I think is laughable is the fact they called out the HazMat team to take a look at a couple of rolls of wet toilet paper! What if the feds/cops showed up at your door because your neighbor TP'd the local ball field? Heck, in my case my neighbors would laugh their butts off! How incredibly stupid! My neighbors would probably say "Yeah, he's a character and maybe a bit crazy, but he's not STUPID!" Regs are regs and if there was a violation, a good talking-to or a review of the regs with a CFI and logbook entry should suffice. A smart slap on the wrist should do... Just my two cents' worth... The paranoia that exists today is disgusting. Who says the terrorists didn't win?
Glascock
Gene Glascock 0
Should be this fools last flight. How stupid can you be.
nctrooper10722001
Thomas Moore 0
Good thing it was "clean-unused TP " as opposed to thw alternate ( #2 ) :X
nctrooper10722001
Thomas Moore 0
Im american, born and raised.. BUT Americans have turned into pussies and ignorant amphibian pieces of shit.. JMO
meeverett
meeverett 0
The most troubling part of the entire article is the interviews with the neighbors. I think this quote from neighbor #2 is pretty indicative of how people view aviation:

"Especially with small planes and all the talk of terrorists going from larger planes to smaller planes, I could understand why people would be upset. ... It's just hard to believe that he would do something like that."

I'm curious what they told the neighbors he did. They both said something to the effect of "It's just hard to believe that he would do something like that." Which, to me, indicates they were told what he did and asked for a reaction.
nctrooper10722001
Thomas Moore 0
Yup.. PPL always have something to bitch about.. why not dropping TP outta a plane? Well DAYUM! theres one !
nctrooper10722001
Thomas Moore 0
It aint like it was a freakin A- Bomp or anything.. PPL suck azz
nctrooper10722001
Thomas Moore 0
BOMB* Spell check **before I get corrected
nctrooper10722001
Thomas Moore 0
PPL throw McDonalds bags outta their cars everyday and nobody says a God Damed thing about that.. WTF ???
werpy
william hall 0
But, did it look cool?
Did he slow down , than throw???
Was it that xtra soft stuff???
Pretty hard to get that stuff on target.
WAS IT A GOOD SHOW??? I kind of like that sort of thing...... sorry
0007
Ryan Collins 0
Much ado about nothing!!It was a practice run, the article contradicts itself.

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