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At Least 3 Dead After Small Plane Crashes Into Riverside, California Home

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RIVERSIDE (CBSLA.com) – At least three people were killed and two people were hurt after a small plane smashed into a home in Riverside late Monday afternoon, sparking a three-alarm fire. According to Riverside police, the plane carrying four people crashed into the home in the 6000 block of Rhonda Road before 4:41 p.m. Riverside City firefighters arrived to find the home engulfed in flames. The crashed plane was a Cessna 310, Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Ian Gregor confirmed. It… (losangeles.cbslocal.com) עוד...

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marianemariposa
Alma Manglicmot 4
Its so sad prayer to the family.
TorstenHoff
Torsten Hoff 3
There are now three confirmed fatalities and two injured, all occupants of the aircraft. There are no known injuries on the ground.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/27/us/california-plane-crash/index.html
ccfiresafety
Andrew Carlson 4
You gotta listen when your plane talks to you. Ignore at your own peril. RIP.
peppco
Uwe Pepper 2
We are Praye for the Family and Friends.

R.I.P.
vulcancruiser
Larry Loffelmacher 2
WAs mentioned that with no forward cargo it was easy to go aft CG.....that gets my vote, sad in any case.
jpilkins
john pilkins 2
The panic situation with engine loss on departure is the PIC pulling the good engine off line. Immediate blue line, no hope. Generally PIc needs about 750' AGL before he/she has any options except wings level and stay above blue line to nose up just prior to impact. Just my thought...
jbermo
jbermo 1
With the good engine shut down while the other one has failed, does a "blue line" then exist?
jpilkins
john pilkins 1
Interesting question... Blue line always exists because its marked on the airspeed indicator but does it really matter? Not in most cases.
krs
Bob Poberezny 2
This does comport with the typical departure stall into a failing engine trying to get back to the airport. There's very little room for error in that situation even in a wonderful airplane like the 310...like most light twins it doesn't have much power cushion with just one turning.
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
From the local paper Press Enterprise:
http://www.pe.com/articles/burning-826435-monday-airplane.html
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
Followup PE story reports trouble starting one engine.
http://www.pe.com/articles/adult-826461-previously-authorities.html?page=1
TorstenHoff
Torsten Hoff 3
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1246G/history/20170227/2345Z/KRAL/KSJC
TorstenHoff
Torsten Hoff 1
I find it a bit odd that the only flight activity for the aircraft are the accident flight, and the reciprocal flight three days earlier.

Granted, only flights with a flight plan would show up, but usually there is much more history. Why fly IFR only on these two occasions? And why for these two flights -- the conditions didn't demand it.
Foxtrot789
Foxtrot789 1
I don't really see how an ifr flight (plan) could have made whatever happened, worse.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Following the registration info, the owner has an ATP.
Perhaps one of the passengers was interested in aviation and a flight plan was filed as for teaching purposes. Just a thought.
jlyount
John Yount 3
Unfortunate. This the second 310 to be involved in a fatality crash within a year in California, Columbia Ca. summer 2016. If one engine fails the other one will probably get you to the scene of the accident, especially if you are near gross near the ground.
linbb
linbb 2
Just an aircraft accident most twins will not fly well on one engine. This is a well known fact lack of training is one of the leading causes of twin accidents.
tjperez927
Tony Perez 1
Is there a V2 speed on this type of A/C?
bbabis
Bill Babis 4
It is basically called blue-line or safe single engine speed. In light piston twins, if you have not attained it by the time of engine failure, you will most likely need to descend to reach it. In a worse case scenario, below VMC or minimum single engine control speed, you would have to reduce power on the operating engine to maintain control and accept the consequences which would be better than losing control. This accident though may not be the result of a single engine failure. She may have lost both engines due to a Jet_A fuel mix up. It happens and the accidents look a lot like this one.
bbabis
Bill Babis 3
Prayers for a family and friends whose lives were ended or forever changed.
It seams that one of the survivors may have been the pilot so a slight chance exists that a first person account could be possible. I have not heard of any ATC conversations yet. Outside of that, the grainy security video seams to show an aircraft without power but under control descend to the ground. Being under control was probably the reason for any survivors at all and enforces the adage that if a crash is inevitable, fly the plane as far into the crash as possible.
A cause is a long way off, but from the little known so far, a miss fueling looks like a possibility.
allench1
allench1 5
one witness described that he saw the wings perpendicular to the ground and at first thought it was a stunt plane leads me to the crash is more than likely due to a left engine failure as the fire indicates plenty of fuel, but its all speculation at this point. my 2 cents
bbabis
Bill Babis 3
Plenty of fuel for sure, but it may have been Jet-A. At start and low power runup they might run fine, but at take-off power you don't get far from the airport before very bad things happen quickly.
allench1
allench1 1
missed that one, good point
bentwing60
bentwing60 1
Jet-A would be my first suspicion as well. Sadly, again.
gtspettigue
George Spettigue 3
The wingtip tanks on a Cessna 310 are the main fuel tanks and are required to be selected for take off and landing. The in wing aux. tanks are not approved for take offs & landings. Ex 310 Owner
givcaptain
givcaptain 2
Hello Captain Spettigue

You are correct!! believe we flew together at Sierra Pacific (American Eagle) way back when.
Hope all is well !

Cordially,

Charles Michael Fiedler
gtspettigue
George Spettigue 3
Small world! I do remember! Hope all is well with you! Now that I am retired, only my wife has to call me Captain - NOT! Best of luck to you! George
jlyount
John Yount 1
If this was an early model Cessna 310 (Sky king's Song Bird) the fuel was stored entirely in the wing tip tanks. So you now have a surging engine,asymmetrical thrust and a wing tip load imbalance, (if only a few pounds) way out there. Now altitude airspeed and ideas are quickly used up.
krs
Bob Poberezny 1
It was a late model Q turbo model with the 520 engines. A very long way from the original one.
krs
Bob Poberezny 1
And by the way, EVERY 310 has carried the vast majority of fuel in those tip tanks, which actually are aerodynamically constructed to produce sufficient lift to offset the weight of the fuel in them. They don't contribute to the 'problem' you have wrongly assumed.

TorstenHoff
Torsten Hoff 1
But lift isn't free, it comes at the expense of drag. The full 51 gallons per tip tank would weigh about 367 lbs each, that is a lot of drag that is incurred at the wingtips to offset the weight. It also isn't clear at what speed the weight is completely offset.
jlyount
John Yount 1
Wingtip tank drag for the early model Cessna 310's was 10 m.p.h. If this was a Q Model lot of power maybe not enough rudder at low speed?
krs
Bob Poberezny 1
To Torsten and John: The induced drag isn't influenced by the quantity of fuel in the tip tanks (nor, obviously, is the profile drag). These tanks were actually an early if unintended version of winglets and they worked very well to decrease it.
You two are obviously not engineers...are you even pilots? John...there's no correlation between 'tank drag' whatever the hell that even means, and some arbitrary "m.p.h." figure. That's completely meaningless. I'm an aeronautical engineer with over 7000 hours in Cessna 310s and I think I know a little about
the a/c.
bentwing60
bentwing60 2
They put those sexy tip tanks on all the early 400 series as well and after you spent a while in a B model 421 in moderately convective weather, your first bumpy trip in a C model was an eye opener and I was ready for the old one back. Those tips with some fuel in them certainly dampened the ride.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Interesting. Do you have any thoughts on the accident? I am waiting for the report myself.
krs
Bob Poberezny 1
joel, I still believe it looks very much like the typical stall (probably in a turn to the dead or dying engine) that happens with a panicking attempt to return to the airport...a very common scenario, and one I have personally successfully done in the past but isn't a statistically good choice.
The final report will depend heavily on whatever evidence of how the engine(s) were operating...if that evidence is forthcoming. Remember there aren't any black boxes in these birds.
BaronG58
BaronG58 1
Just throwing this out here. Not knowing exactly what the cause was. Could weight and balance be a complicating factor. With five souls on board, luggage and possibility of full fuel (judging by post crash fire). I do not know what density altitude was but just saying when thing do go wrong, especially during take-off, this can come into play.
bentwing60
bentwing60 0
Very much so Baron. The net effect of moving the CG aft with AC loading is the reduction of lever arm or mechanical advantage for the rudder and elevator. Ergo, reduced flight control authority. The only scenario worse than being heavy,low, and slow with an aft CG and losing the critical engine at max. takeoff power would be losing both. A possibility with fuel contamination (JetA) as Bill Babis first mentioned. The classic signature seems to be there. We'll know soon enough and I'd like to be wrong in agreeing with Bill about the possible misfueling thing, but it won't change the result.
BaronG58
BaronG58 1
If jet-a was loaded one would think this would have been picked up during preflight (sump & dump). I heard or read somewhere there was a light rain at time of departure. If so, possible preflight was abbreviated or not at all. This is speculation on my part but would be sad if something this simple to catch and correct was the cause. But as you said whatever the cause "it won't change the results.
bentwing60
bentwing60 2
Baron, you participated in the linked thread below some time back. Review it, cause I guess you are still flying a Baron. JetA contamination is not necessarily that easy to identify. In a sample cup JetA and avgas will not stratify as quickly as do water and avgas . Especially in small concentrations. Much smaller specific gravity spread. Hence sump and dump may not reveal it. And it doesn't take a whole lot of JetA to ruin your day. Not so sure that this was the result of that now, but there are plenty of examples. Piston drivers should always remember that JetA will wipe out any piston engine. It just takes a little longer in a non turbo charged one. If you have even a hint of contamination, Remember the paper thing.

https://flightaware.com/squawks/view/1/y_days/popular/48755/NATA_Aims_To_Improve_Misfueling_Awareness#152874

dbkoob
dbkoob 1
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Three killed when San Jose-bound plane crashes in Riverside

Witness said plane was rocking back and forth and had multiple starting failures before taking off for ill-fated flight

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/28/update-3-killed-2-women-survive-when-san-jose-bound-plane-crashes-in-riverside/
crk112
crk112 1
This screams "misfuel" to high heaven... that plane was probably full of Jet A.
ironeyes7
J Sandusky 1
I am amazed and thankful that some survived.
gtspettigue
George Spettigue 1
As I understand it, part of the design philsophy of carrying the Cessna 310's fuel in wingtip tanks was to keep it away from the fuselage in the event of an accident, but obviously not in the case of anything so catastrophic as this accident. So sad! Ex 310 owner.
CAPTAINYZ
MATT RAMSEY 1
Is it confirmed that an engine was lost at t/o?
I had heard that the tip tank design had more to do with wing loading and landing gear loading. Don't know if that's true or not. I always think of the heater that is fed by AVGAS usually in the nose of twin Cessna's as being a source for fire in the cockpit.

gtspettigue
George Spettigue 1
I still vividly remember my multi engine instructor admonishing me to review the "engine out on take off procedure" just prior to pushing the throttles forward on each and every take off.
At age 73, after 55 years and 35,000 hrs of airline and general aviation flying, I still do it! Remember that the secret to a long and successful aviation career can be summed up in three words "DON'T HIT NUTHIN!" Never did!
RDLoven
Richard Loven 1
If you have full power on takeoff roll that is likely to continue unless fuel is shut off. Wrong fuel could do this. Also ( I don't know the fuel system on 310's ) using the wrong tanks in too steep of a climb might cavitate the fuel source.
PATRON66
James Mason 1
I feel for the people in the crash. I hope they find out what caused the aircraft to go down so fast.
alubarsky
Anatoly Lubarsky 1
Was the gear retracted? Twins are well known to stall in climb attitude even with full power.
Fred60
Fred Willson 1
I noticed two things in the video report; 1. the plane seemed to be pancaking in rather than a nose down stall and 2. the comment by the restaurant owner about the tail section flapping up and down when it started. Any thoughts from someone familiar with that aircraft?
Foxtrot789
Foxtrot789 1
One of the articles says "The plane was broken into hundreds of pieces, its propeller sitting on the roof of a nearby home". That could be very telling...
jbermo
jbermo 1
From the pics, the propeller on the rooftop looks as if feathered. Unfortunately, only a molten mass is the majority of whats left.
Foxtrot789
Foxtrot789 1
Ya, I finally just saw the pictures... the wording I originally read had made it seem like the propeller was found away from the crash site.
jpilkins
john pilkins 0
I think the blue line is above the stall speed in the 310; could explain the roll over (wings perpendicular observation). Stall would generally have a nose down or impact nose up..
crk112
crk112 1
Yes blue line is probably always above stall speed... it's the minimum speed you can climb on one engine. Below this speed and you have too much adverse yaw from only one engine running and the plane rolls right over.

If they were mis-fueled with Jet-A chances are neither engine was producing power. This is evidenced by the condition of the props they took from the accident site (pictures are out there).
jpilkins
john pilkins 0
No some turbo props can achieve a stall above. Actually means very little though at that small corner of the envelope..

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