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Before Ethiopian Crash, Boeing Resisted Pilots’ Calls for Aggressive Steps on 737 Max

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Weeks after the first fatal crash of the 737 Max, pilots from American Airlines pressed Boeing executives to work urgently on a fix. In a closed-door meeting, they even argued that Boeing should push authorities to take an emergency measure that would likely result in the grounding of the Max. (www.nytimes.com) עוד...

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pappyroehrer
Bob Roehrer 3
Not saying its right, but in China, these Boeing execs would be facing a firing squad - literally.
bingobanner
Russ Brown 1
A dash camera caught the last moments of the flight. It is horrible - terrifying- and sad. I watched it twice and that was two times to much.
turbohawk
David Turner 5
Boeings behavior is criminal.
gccocco
GIAN CARLO COCCO 5
Hanno ragione i piloti, devono avere sicurezza e tantissime garanzie in più mentre svolgono il loro lavoro.
pilot62
Scott Campbell -1
Boeing hired the test pilots - they passed it by, and let their fellow pilots fly it to there deaths
So I guess they just agree,after they cash their pay checks too ...
ianmcdonell
ian mcdonell 1
Armchair experts rule - NOT

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

Quirkyfrog
Robert Cowling 4
I worked with a crew of 'H1B' imports. I was astounded at their work ethic. They were in at their desks working by 7, and often stayed until 8PM, and worked most weekends and holidays. It was a programming contract to rewrite the student information system at a big 10 school. They had bought the source code for a package and were having them work on it. I can't tell you how many of the universities people were in by 8:05, and out at 4:55 like a rifle shot. Bitch about them all you want, but those crew I worked with worked far and above what anyone was willing to do that worked for the university. I was impressed. They got the project done early and under budget.

As to your last statement, I totally agree. Look, industry wide, corporations are picking the quick profit option over the long slow build. They are choosing China, and now Vietnam, to manufacture their crap, pricing it like it was made here, and pocketing the money by buying up their stock to inflate the price and start the money shower. Laughing all the way to the bank. When Bush cut capital gains taxes, the money showers started in earnest. Screw the worker class, under design, under engineer, under manufacture, and keep doing it. So unions got screwed, jobs went to places where the cost of living is almost literally peanuts, and the price of the product doesn't go down, nope, but the 'profit' goes up. And the workers take it on the chin, the ass, the back. 'Work smarter not harder' they chirp, counting their money, and the inequality gets larger and larger. Imagine literally not knowing how much money you have, because you have so much. Forgetting how many houses you own, and that 200,000 square foot cottage. And rain platitudes on the poor working classes, and keep screwing them into a deeper hole, and get them to defend you! That is rich, the working class demonstrating to 'stop penalizing the rich', and also eliminate the 'death tax'. The smug rich are laughing at the stupid American workers. Slaves defending their masters ability to screw them. And then the vote for trump...
Naemuti
Emily Leighton 3
You hit the nail right on the head; but no, let's keep blaming it on the immigrants because we need a convenient scapegoat so no one notices who's ACTUALLY screwing them. Racism is highly profitable, always has been, always will be.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

KineticRider
Randy Marco 0
Willard, well said.... just like another conned MAGA fan!
tyketto
Brad Littlejohn 5
Seeing that the A300 didn't have a design flaw and used software to compensate for it, that had many faults in it on its own (relying on one sensor, no crosscheck, etc.), your claim about pilots not complaining about that incident is a crock.

But to use your logic, where were the American pilots with TWA800? Where were the American pilots with SWR11? Where were they with USA427? That issue is still prevalent on some models of the B737. Where were they with AAL191? ASA261?

Again, you don't have a bloody clue of what you're talking about.
bentwing60
bentwing60 0
Once again I will expose my comment to the down voting crowd and your lack of credibility on this issue by posting the NTSB report which listed the AB rudder architecture as a contributing factor in the AA587 accident. It is long, but accurate as usual, and I won't quote the wiki. article as the continued leftward drift erases all but a hint of the history that they reengineered the whole deal after the crash. 10 other near fail verticle stab attach point instances "at least" were discovered and documented as a result of A.D. 2002-06-09, issued after the accident. While I support the right of anyone to comment here, sometimes it becomes apparent that some don't have a bloody clue what they are talking about.

chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR0404.pdf
tyketto
Brad Littlejohn 2
Not sure of what you're getting at here, as I'm more than familiar with this AD. And nothing in it hints at a design flaw of the A306, let alone the A300 altogether. In fact nothing in there shows anything as far as the design of the A300 being a contributing factor to what caused AAL587.

Not sure what you're getting at here, because the entire reason AAL587 was brought up was to be a total red herring.
bentwing60
bentwing60 -1
So, you didn't read it!
you can lead a horse to water, Executive Summary, page 13,

The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of this accident was the in-flight separation of the vertical stabilizer as a result of the loads beyond ultimate design that were created by the first officer’s unnecessary and excessive rudder pedal inputs. "Contributing to these rudder pedal inputs were characteristics of the Airbus A300-600 rudder system design and elements of the American Airlines Advanced Aircraft Maneuvering Program". The safety issues discussed in this report focus on characteristics of the A300-600 rudder control system design, A300-600 rudder pedal inputs at high airspeeds, aircraft-pilot coupling, flight operations at or below an airplane’s design maneuvering speed, and upset recovery training programs. Safety recommendations concerning these issues are addressed to the Federal Aviation Administration and the Direction Général del’Aviation Civile.

My mea culpa hare, AB did not reengineer the whole thing
bentwing60
bentwing60 -1
And since I managed to post this before the conclusion of the comment,

My mea culpa here, AB did not reengineer the whole thing, though the NTSB, FAA, and Direction Général del’Aviation Civile strongly recommended a redesign that AB apparently ignored, and a subsequent A.D requires it or an acceptable alternative listed in the A.D. 2012-21-15. Something else to not read that doesn't support your case is linked below. Red herring or not, your reply to christopher willard was, for whatever reason, at best inaccurate.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=20499365-2de2-4a5c-93c6-334b05ccaae5
tyketto
Brad Littlejohn 1
I read the entire AD... WHEN IT WAS FIRST RELEASED IN 2002. And even after skimming it again, you still fail to make any point. Again, please tell me where AAL587 was due to a design flaw, and not overuse of the rudder let alone fatigue causing it to fall off.

Again, your post here makes no sense, and is a complete red herring to the fact that there IS a design flaw on the B38m and B39M. That has already been explained and documented.
btweston
btweston 8
you are paranoid and delusional, friend.
patpylot
patrick baker 4
another piece of bad boeing behavior. Pilots in the end only want, and do demand a predictable, consistent performing machine, and efforts to stiffle that impulse reflect badly on the stiffilers. Those folks at boeing ought to be fired and replaced by folks with more helpful instincts. This includes executives, board memebers, and anybody senior enough to have hobbled the exposure and remediation of the boeing bucking bronco, the Max 737...and done publicly and labeled as such, otherwise more coverup and obfuscation, none of which boeing can further afford
JimG4170L
Jim Goldfuss 14
Unfortunately this just comes across as a company disregarding the feedback from their customers. If pilots (not A pilot, but a union) is saying to take certain steps, Boeing should have reacted immediately. Pilots fly that plane day in and day out and know what to do - if they say to make a fix, it shouldn't be so readily dismissed as it appears Boeing has. It is disturbing how much new information is coming out about the things Boeing did to keep this plane under the 737 banner and under a single type certificate. If it weren't for the need to keep certification the same as other 737's, MCAS wouldn't have been necessary, and pilots would have been trained to fly a perfectly capable and stable aircraft.

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