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Remains found after Boeing 767 with three aboard crashes in water near Houston

GTI3591 - Multiple agencies are responding to reports of a plane crash in Chambers County. According to the Chambers County Sheriff's Office, the crash happened near the City of Anahuac, Texas, in the Trinity Bay. Preliminary reports state a two-engine Boeing 767 cargo jetliner crashed shortly before 12:45 p.m. Saturday. ( More...

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Sam McGowan 1
Very interesting. I am a retired professional pilot and live in the Houston area. We weren't watching broadcast TV and weren't aware of the crash until much later in the day. My recollection was that the line - which wasn't much where I live - passed through around 11:00 and should have been well past Anahuac by the time of the crash at around 1:00. This shows the crash occurred well to the east of the approaching line. This tells me weather wasn't a factor.
Kevin Keswick 4
MesaAirlines confirms that one of the victims in Atlas air 3591 crash was Captain Sean Archuleta, a pilot for Mesa Airlines since 2013. Archuleta was riding in the jumpseat.
Relics 4
Horrible day and I feel such heavy sorrow for the families and co workers affected. Condolences and I hope we can learn what exactly happened in the coming days.
Kobe Hunte 4
Some people have the time to come on here and say "duplicate squawk submitted". So what?!!! If he wanted to post this.. let it be!
joel wiley 6
FlightAware moderates the squawks. When multiple posts are made for a subject, they usually select one of the earliest and merge subsequent ones into a common thread. When trying to post a new squawk the system tries to alert you of similar ones already posted. It is considered good netiquette to refrain from duplicate postings. If one feels they have a new info source that differs from the already posted squawk, it my well stand on its own.
Kobe Hunte 2
thanks for explaining my reasoning! :)
AWAAlum -1
Hi Joel - Several times, when I'm preparing to post a squawk, I'll get an alert that it may be a duplicate. When I run a search, sometimes I find nothing, others I'll find something that contains some of the same words but on a different event, and then sometimes it has already been posted. Unfortunately, a few times I've run a search, found nothing and proceeded to post, AFTER which It shows as a duplicate. It happens.
joel wiley 3
I think that the duplicate squawk designation has changed over the last few years with the increase in posts. I remember when two posts for a AVherald report would have the later one merged as duplicate. It now seems it is more topic oriented and is more subjective on the part of the FA administrator/moderator staff. I don't see it as a problem, but then I'm not concerned about racking up brownie points for the most squawks published.
AWAAlum 1
Well darn - I didn't know points were involved. See you later - I must go on a hunt for potential squawks.
djames225 4
Looks as thou CVR was found and has been sent to Washington...condolences to all families and friends involved.
sharon bias 7
I listened to the entire 30 minute air traffic control audio. Everyone was discussing weather. Go up, go down, go around, what level is there smoother air? Pilots were regularly reporting what they encountered in real time. If the NTSB can get a good weather map for the 30 minutes proceeding the crash, plot the locations of the other planes and document what the other pilots were saying, we might get a better feel for how weather might have contributed to the crash.
Joe DeGregorio 17
They do have that weather data, I am a Meteorologist and have excellent radar data with Winds during the hour before and hour after and while i'm not going to speculate, I did see something that may have very well had an impact on the aircraft. I'm going to compile that data and post it on my weather youtube page in the near future. I'm not going to be judgemental and want to wait for the NTSB to recover the CVR and FDR first.
bbogle 5
Would love to see what you come up with respect to the weather.
djames225 2
Having the radar data would be more advantagious than anything we could see at ground level...have heard others describe wind conditions when flying "breezy below, tornadic up top".
Respect your keeping a "lid" on it whilst investigation ongoing.
Sam McGowan 0
Actually, unless there is turbulence, wind isn't even noticeable in an airplane at altitude. I've flown in winds in excess of 150 miles per hour and it was smooth as silk. The only effect was on ground speed (which was formidable.) Wind most affects an airplane on takeoff and landing.
I am not an expert but have investigated many aircraft accidents and incidents; weather has a big impact on aviation especially when aviators tend to rely on technology too much and forget the real function of the pilot! Some pilots tend to become computer operators and fail to maintain control of the aircraft, ignore weather conditions and other extenuating circumstances!
I will hold my speculating opinion till know more about this tragedy.
Kind Regards,
David Blakeney
Jesse Carroll 1
A 777 Instructor pilot I know (retired) says the Asian pilots? are notorious for switching on the AP, as soon as possible! Has nothing to do with this incident, however, being an avid watcher or "Why Planes Crash", it is noticeable how many CVR tapes you hear the PIC ask for the AP to be switched on as soon as the wheels come off the ground!
This is in response to to David Blakeney post of modern pilots forgetting their main function is to " Fly the Plane First"
Just saying! May they rest in peace and will be waiting on the NTSB report in a year or two!
Sam McGowan 1
It's all on the Flight Aware track of the flight - no weather in the immediate vicinity of the crash. The airplane was approaching a line of weather but it was still some distance ahead. We'll see what the NTSB report says - when it comes out about a year from now - but I doubt that weather will be a factor.
John Skogstoe 1
I saw that too Sam but I wondered if an invisible gust front could have been out that far from the line and contributed to the crash.
bbogle 3
The weather at the time was not the best further west of the accident site. Weather at the time wasn't too bad, I've flow my Cessna in worse. Visibility was low at the time. I live about 25 miles from the crash site. Sad day indeed.
Sam McGowan 1
I live near Arcola Airport. We didn't get much weather at all out of the frontal passage.
Was not a good day in American aviation. Rest in peace to this crew. There were two other crashes within minutes of each other; one resulting in a fatality, and two injuries, and the other 1 injury.... Praying for the souls of those lost.
I am wondering if a CG shift may have contributed to this. Perhaps a cargo container was not locked down correctly and came loose causing the plane to become uncontrollable? Just a theory as I am not an expert on this.
Sam McGowan 2
No! I am both a retired professional pilot and a former USAF loadmaster. If there had been a CG shift, it would have most likely occurred on takeoff.
Sam. Remember Murphy's Law
No disrespect intended to you or the flight crew. I do hope that the CVR and FDR tell the story.
Isn't it odd that comm was lost as well as radar, at the time they went down?
Would a TOTAL electrical failure cause such an event?
Do the data recorders have battery power at all other than the pingers?
My question is, If all power is lost, will the data recorders still function for a short time?
my Condolences to the families of the flight crew. God rest their souls. I'm hopeful that a cause can be determined and prevent this from ever happening again. I don't know why I can't get lithium batteries in cargo planes out of my head!!I talked with a Captain at our Dulles fire station who tells us he has flown Millions of cell phones over the pond. He says it only gonna take that "one in ten million".
Such a sad event - hate reading of this type of incident. Prayers for the families during this tough time.

Super curious to see what's on the black box - hope they release that info soon. Hopefully there will be something on there we can all learn from.
I'm curious as to why all radio communications and radar suddenly ceased. The ship didn't break up in the air so that's out. Could violent weather have disabled the crew or A/C systems?
Anyone-- any thoughts? I wonder what Preacher1 would have to say.
I'm very sad at the loss of the crew and the mystery surrounding the crash. May they rest in peace.
Sam McGowan 1
The airplane is reported to have been in a high speed dive in excess of 6,000 feet per minute.
may they rest in peace..the ntsb and the faa have excellent people who work on situations and crashes such as this one..they will find the cause,so we should not speculate..the bay in that area is marshy,soft and muddy,so larger pieces of the aircraft may be imbedded into the sand,per an investigator on the scene yesterday...
Torsten Hoff 2
The last two data points from the track show the speed to be stable, but low. But the descent rate is far too high for a stable approach, -7000 feet/minute at an altitude of 3000 feet for the last data point.
The speed shown is ground speed. With a steep descent angle and increasing descent rate the ground speed will show a continual decrease, even with indicated airspeed increasing dramatically. If descent angle progressed to 90 degrees, ground speed would reflect zero.
frugala 1
it appears to be (Ground Speed) + (Vertical Speed). The 2nd to the last speed was 282mph. The final speed was 384mph. The last minute had them dropping 27,900 feet. If you convert 27,900 feet/minute into mph you get 317mph. So, ground speed must have been (384 - 317 = ) 67mph. So, mostly straight down. Dive? Stall? bummer
bentwing60 5
they were thirty miles from the airport, ergo, not configured or even in the approach phase. The last multiple data points show a slowing trend to the 250 Knt. speed limit below 10,000. This airplane went straight to 40,000 in 20 minutes, so it was light and there was fuel in the water where it hit. The wheels came off the tracks in the last two minutes. No C.G. shift IMHO. Gonna be a weird one and the FDR and CVR will be the only verifiable witnesses. Condolences to all involved, and sadly, it happens, though not on this scale in the US in quite some time.
djames225 1
Now that the FDR has also been located, hopefully the puzzle can be pieced back together to see what downed this bird and hopefully give some closure of why..again..RIP gents.
ADXbear 1
mikey mikey 1
Seems to me to be too large a debris field to have been intact at impact. NTSB investigation will tell more.
My comment is for the purpose of following the proceedings.
What a sad tragedy!
How sad. RIP!!
Jamar Jackson 1
Was it a micro burst ?
Sam McGowan 0
No. Micro bursts only affect flight at low altitude. Besides, micro bursts are warm weather events. Wind shear occurs in winter but ditto on low altitude.
I remember way back in the 60s our instructors told us "Fly the plane". I'm sure this is exactly what they were trying to do in their final moments following comm. loss. RIP.
Tom Williams 1
Why would the data recorders be so hard to locate in this shallow water
Trinity Bay is pretty much a swamp. The data recorders are probably feet in the mud.
Impact speed indicates around 5 feet deep in muck.
Tom Williams 1
there was a report they weren't even picking up a ping. How deep would they have to be?
travistx 1
So muddy, in fact, that they're bringing in dredges to aid in the recovery of debris, if I understand correctly.
8984p 3
Think of 9/11 flight 93, a smoking hole with debris buried deep. This flight also ended in a steep nose down attitude.
Kevin Keswick 1
Audio recording: Houston approach - final communication with "Giant 3591" (at the beginning of recording) after around 10 minutes discussion of "ELT's" - near the end controllers ask other flights if they can see the downed aircraft
Jim DeTour 4
They had weather others were told they could divert around and one reported having diverted around an area he didn't like. Texas has some healthy weather coming off that gulf. Wouldn't be the first time a heavy was taken down by wind shear or microbursts in Texas.
Sam McGowan 1
Look at the flight track. They weren't close to any weather at the time of the crash.
patrick baker -2
sorry about that, but this will happen again from time to time. Hard to slow it down or stop it.
These crashes will be explained in some course, but aviation seems not to make the same mistakes again and again, just different ones. You would think we know a lot by now....
racerxx -1
I have some experience and have a theory that I decline to voice at this time. Like everyone else I eagerly await the report/official findings.
Tom Bruce -4
weather? old airplane-maintanence? crew experience? damn!!
tim mitchell -2
Very odd list of events.

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racerxx -8
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Amazon Cargo 767 Crashes Shortly Before Landing In Houston

The FAA is reporting that a cargo Boeing 767-300 crashed today while enrotue from Miami to Houston. This was an Atlas Air jet with the registration code N1217A operating on behalf of Amazon Air (which often has the “Prime Air”) branding.
wx1996 -9

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