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  • 78

New study proves just how worthless TSA airport body scanners really are

נשלח לפני
 
‟In laboratory tests with a real machine, we were able to conceal guns, knives, and explosive simulants in such a way that they were not visible to the scanner operator,” the report reads. ‟We also studied the cyberphysical security of the machine and were able to show how an attacker could subvert the operator console software so that it would be possible to conceal all types of contraband.” (www.dailydot.com) עוד...

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viappc
Larry Adams 12
Millions of American's rights of privacy and probable cause, have been violated, and not ONE terrorist have they caught or detected to date!
preacher1
preacher1 6
Strange as it sounds, and as inept and hated as the TSA is, has it just been sheer dumb luck that we have NOT had a hijacking since 911, and I am not defending them by any means.
mikekenny427
michael kenny 1
IMHO, one (only?) good to come from 9/11 is that hijacking a plane in America is now a losing proposition. 100+ passengers who will very quickly realize they have nothing to lose is a powerful deterrent. A hijacker knows he/she might get into the plane, but actually achieving an end goal will be near impossible. Failure, as I understand it, (and I don't) might mean that the promised 1001 Virgin's won't be provided.

Dumb luck? Probably some combination of things, including dumb luck, United 93, additional difficulties getting into a plane (whether that is designed by TSA or not) plus current efforts at destabilizing Iraq/Syria (hey, even terrorists have limited resources).
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 3
Hopefully anyone considering such an event will realize they just may be the one at which point they run out of virgins. Gosh, just think about it, 1001 virgins for each and every terrorist who forfeits his life. That's a lotta virgins! I wanna know what the female terrorists win.
Cannikin
Cannikin 2
Actually, it's just 72 virgins, so they'll go a bit further.
mikekenny427
michael kenny 1
I stand corrected.
BaronG58
BaronG58 1
I like the old joke...The terrorist are confused. They think they are going to meet-up with 72 virgins. Surprised when they are met by 72 West Virginians.
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 1
Eternal virginity?
Cannikin
Cannikin 1
Would passengers be able to gain access to flight decks with reinforced cockpit doors?
larena77
des quinn 0
No entry to cockpit as of 9/11
Cannikin
Cannikin 0
Difficult logic there. Just because it doesn't catch them does't mean it isn't deterring them from trying in the first place.
GaAubie
Ken Hardy 9
No surprise here, I was connected with the Airport security industry for many years as part of my Industrial x-Ray imaging business and once the TSA got up and running, they spent billions on junk technologies promoted by politically connected companies that knew they were dealing with technical morons and took full advantage of them. I personally witnessed a key committee Congressman tell a vendor he would make sure the funding was in place for a machine design that claimed capibilitys those of us in the imaging industry knew to be BS. Where Government/public money is involved, the hustlers come out of the woodwork to scam the public, it happens at all levels of Government because no one has or takes responsibility for protecting the wise use of tax dollars, as the old saying goes " It's not MY money " when in fact it's ALL our money, think 18,000,000,000,000 and climbing in public debt.
mikeenderle
Michael Enderle 8
I was a ramper at a larger airport for a while. I was security checked once in 12 months I worked there. I was the last one in contact with the aircraft before it took off. I could have done anything I wanted to an aircraft and brought anything onto an aircraft. What good is hundreds of millions of dollars of security up front only to leave the back door wide open. I am not the kind of person to want to do something like that but this is such joke. The illusion of safety... The only thing you need to bypass TSA is a clean record and a decent interview with an airline. The solution isn't new scanners or more funding. It is not declaring parts of country to be Constitution free zones where your rights are left at the door. The TSA is the definition of socialist tyranny. Politics can not be set aside in this issue either.
spicyg
David Govan -1
Because of comments like this by people who claim the ability to circumvent security, TSA has now increased oversight of the comings and goings of ground service personnel.
dnorthern
dnorthern 6
You make it sound like a bad thing. Everyone who flies more than once a month realizes what Michael said is true.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 2
I've seen numerous reports on the news of TSA personnel picking up laptops, miscellaneous items from luggage, etc. Who oversees TSA?
sracer99
Steve Kramer 7
A poster below mentioned El Al and their success. There is a simple answer: Please Profile Me! Forget people finding this offensive, we're trying to protect this country, if you don't like it, don't fly.
WavemanT
WavemanT 6
The Israelis use X-ray machines and other detectors too, but unlike the TSA, they do more. They ask questions and scrutinize how you respond more than what you say, looking for inflection, eye movements, facial expression, and so on. At Ben Gurion airport this is typically done while you're waiting in line, before you even get to the check in desk. As far as I can tell, it applies no matter what airline you're flying or where you're going. The only time I've ever had this done on the way out of the USA was when I was flying El Al.
MLSellers
Mildred Sellers 8
The ElAl screeners interview each customer...they PROFILE. Anyone that has a Pre Ckeck, Equis or Global entry has been profiled....
I say PROFILE everyone....tough if it hurts your feelings. STAY HOME if you have fragile feelings.
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 1
May I add that the young man and the young woman who asked us some very simple question at Ben Gurion were also very polite and excused themselves, making sure we understood the need for this. There was no barking of commands like you can find elsewhere. I'm very sure that our reactions were also watched by specialists via the numerous cameras installed everywhere.
gunfitr
Kurt Anderson 2
You are correct. I have worked in law enforcement here in the US for over 30yrs. Basic academy stuff is when you are questioning anyone is not as much as what comes out of their mouths but to watch their eyes, arms, legs and overall body movement. It will give you the truth and has saved my life more than once.
dral6503
Ed Berling 4
I've always looked at the TSA as more of a way to calm the flying public than an actual deterrent to any sort of terrorist threat. In other words, if the TSA wasn't there, no matter how ineffective their job is at stopping threats, if the flying public didn't see them on the job they wouldn't fly. The group that makes me smile the most is the police staff at most airports. It's like if you win the lottery for police staffing you get to work at the airport. Most (but of course not all) are overweight, they always seem to be sitting in the food court, or sitting right next to three other TSA agents, or sitting near the security check points. I seriously doubt if they'd be able to catch anyone under the age of 80 if they had to chase him or her down the concourse. It's almost like "we've got to put these people somewhere, might as well dump them at the airport!"
xairbusdriver
Jim Smirh 7
According to the "About" page for this source (the Daily Dot), it's "the Web’s most comprehensive source for original Internet-community news". If they are such a dependable source of "news" why is their copyright info out-of-date? Seems like they would have that info at their finger tips! "It's only typing!" To me it indicates sloppiness, at best and unreliability at worst. Just be happy they aren't involved in aviation! LOL!

As Abe Lincoln (I think it was) said, "The trouble with quotations on the Internet is that it's difficult to discern whether or not they are genuine." The Daily Dot is not a "news" source. :rolleyes: YMMV
flyCLE
Roger McHugh 2
argumentum ad hominem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
Interesting quote...let me think now... Lincoln-assassinated in 1865 / internet early practical schematics in the early 1960s. Oh wait, you probably meant a different Abe Lincoln.
jkudlick
Jeremy Kudlick 2
There's a meme that has been on Facebook, Twitter, and many other social media sites with an image of President Lincoln and the text he quoted. It is meant to remind people that a lot of the "news" you read on the internet is false, since there is little journalistic integrity at stake.
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 1
Or he meant it as a joke.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 2
I guess I really need there to be a sarcasm font.
clabo
gene kwiecinski 1
Comic Sans. :D
KrauseAware2
John Krause 2
This headline is a little misleading.
The study used Former body scanners which have been or are in the process of being removed from airports, and replaced by different technology.

If you are really attached to "worhtless", thenthe headline should At Least read;

"... how worthless former TSA airport body scanners really were"

"When the TSA pulled Rapiscan 1000 airport security scanners from airports last summer, ..."

"Luckily, due to the privacy concerns, the TSA scrapped the Rapiscan machines in favor of ones based on millimeter wave technology, which likely lack many of the same vulnerabilities identified in this study."
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
Very interesting.. Not surprising however...
gwaltp
George Parker 5
I'm sure the TSA is aware of the scanners vulnerabilities, but do we want everyone to be? I find it interesting how quickly were are to reveal weaknesses in our defence. One would never consider releasing a surreptitiously obtained play-plan of their favorite football team.
flyCLE
Roger McHugh 3
"I'm sure the TSA is aware of the scanners vulnerabilities, but do we want everyone to be?"

LOL I'm sure they're alarmed will promptly fix it.
jkudlick
Jeremy Kudlick 2
Already fixed - these particular machines were removed from all airports more than a year ago.
bimjim
Jim Lynch 3
In the US (as I am sure in other countries), unless the wheel squeaks it gets no grease. The world revolves on MONEY...if the "Powers" could keep such short-falls to themselves do you really think they would spend any money to fix it? Or let the rest of us go on thinking it was fool-proof?
outward
Jimmy Robinson 3
I've read articles before that talk about successful burglary techniques and use enough of an explanation that if I wanted to rob a house, I'd already have a head start. I've also seen news reports that talk about security issues in computers, about vulnerabilities in military systems and procedures. It makes me wonder how stupid people can be sometimes to just broadcast how someone else might do something to hurt us or take from us.We might as well write an article that says, 'Here's how to do it.'
clabo
gene kwiecinski 1
Well, what about the guy who exposed a security flaw on Facebook, pointed it out, and was rightfully due some reward/prize for doing so, and was rebuffed by FB, saying it wasn't an important-enough flaw, he didn't jump through the requisite hoops, etc., and was denied his reward.

So he hacked Zuckerberg's page to expose it quite publicly.

*THEN* and only then was the hole patched.


"Security" by simply stating "Our System Is Secure" isn't security at all.
sparkie624
sparkie624 -5
Of course the TSA is, but they are led by liberal idiots who don't really care.
PegMitchell
Peggy Mitchell 4
I believe these scanners were pitched and installed by republicans.
outward
Jimmy Robinson -1
Written by a Democrat, I'm sure. However, politics need to be kept out of this. This is an aviation forum, not a place for political discussion and opinion.
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 5
Right on Jimmy, I just hope everybody will keep internal US politics out of this forum.
outward
Jimmy Robinson 5
Thanks. There's enough mud being slung in the news and practically everywhere else. No need in 'dirtying' up FlightAware too.
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 1
But I have to admit that my formulation was not really good, as some of our Australian or Canadian friends are guilty as well.
podgerog
podgerog 3
You know that man you hate - you look more like him every day.

This is quite the saddest exchange I've ever read on this site. Usually comments seem balanced and informed on aspects of aviation appropriate and proportionate to the article. This appears not to be the case here except for a few. I'm appalled and saddened.

Oh and I'm from the UK and overrun with Jihadists we are not.
outward
Jimmy Robinson 3
You're right, and political discussion seems to be working it's way into this aviation forum more and more. That's sad.
thompson36532
Peter Thompson 2
You're the one who's right, IMO. If one doesn't bring up politically related stuff, it normally won't be answered in a political way. If you bring up political views, there's no doubt in my mind it will be answered in the oposing political view that the subject was brought up in. Pretty simple to me.....
fproszek
framk proszek 1
the most common man's first name in the UK for the last 5 years was mohammed. Go find an American to help you decide if you are over run or not.
thompson36532
Peter Thompson -1
No offense, my friend, but have you seen the stats on UK (or UK educated) folks involved with the problems with the new wave of jihadists in the middle east lately? The only reason I bring that up is because of what you say in the post I'm replying to. Cast no stones when you may have them tossed back at you :)
podgerog
podgerog 5
No offence taken. I don't deny that people from the UK have joined these movements or that people with such execrable beliefs are here. However, compared to the number of perfectly peaceful people of all faiths and none that do not hold those beliefs, it is tiny. All countries have their destructive element. They tend to be the most vocal. It is important to counter them with a more balanced view and show that they are a minority. I have lived in communities of just about every faith, though I have none, and every colour. They lived together, shopped together and accepted each other as part of that community. You always find negativity if you look for it but fewer people look for the positives and work toward them and I am no optimist.

I like to come here to read about aviation, I can get the other stuff elsewhere.
orcas123
Tom Wilhite 2
There is something flawed in a system that's takes was taking away the very small Swiss Army knife brand fingernail file yet allows knitting needles aboard.
Can we say oxymoron Children.
hortod1
dj horton 1
Ooh ooh, I can say oxymoron! But can YOU define it? Because what you've described isn't an oxymoron, it's a contradiction.
Yukishau
Shaun S 3
Jumbo shrimp? (sorry everybody)
Clutcher
Caleb Gordon 2
Worthless article. These scanners are long gone from 99% of airports. Maybe they should spend thousands of more dollars researching new security measures than trying to "crack" machines that are no longer used in most, soon to be all airports across the US...smh
gzelna
Greg Zelna 2
Hmm, every flight I've taken in the past 6 months used full body scanners. Every one.
jkudlick
Jeremy Kudlick 2
TSA still uses millimeter wave scanners, the ones with the "arms" that spin around you and scan just about everything except the top of you head and the soles of your feet. The ones mentioned in the article were the backscatter machines that have already been removed from every airport.
thompson36532
Peter Thompson 1
I don't fly often, anymore, but I've only had 1 full body scan in the last 5 years and during that period, I've flown more than I had during the previous 20 years. I guess some of that scanning may come from where one lives, perhaps?
jeffdr
Jeff Reader 1
Not what we wanted to hear, but are we really surprised !!
jesbra1
Jan Esbra 1
A man was mailed in a box, by plane......and even he passed by scanners, he got to the billed adress.
Chipandaput
John Mccullough 1
I get it. Does TSA get it? Please figure out how to devote our resources to clearly identify the bad guys and those countries which send commercial aircraft (passenger & cargo) to the US to be equally technologically viligent.
gunfitr
Kurt Anderson 1
The problem is not with the scanners, it is with the TSA people monitoring them. Most of the time they look so bored they are about to fall over. No wonder it's a snap to get things past them.
oowmmr
oowmmr 1
Well the TSA caught my iddy bitty key deal that looks like a key when closed and has a 1/2" long, un-sharpened section as a cutting tool. Useless but was a gift I'd gotten used to. Made it on a few flights. Boy was the TSA proud of that one. Quizzing me on me job, whereabouts and wheretos.
Michaeleagle
Michael Williams 1
I use to be chief of gate security at Detroit Metrow Airport and you have no idea how many things we found at the gate check point...
By the way the way it was the Government that decided to get rid of the second check point....I think that decision will bite them on the ..you know what...
ColinSeftel
Colin Seftel 2
Wouldn't someone who was employed at Detroit Metro know how to spell the name?
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
I'm kinda wondering why the article was written at all. It's about a machine it claims is no longer in use.
MLSellers
Mildred Sellers 1
ALL of this is show....if you think you are safe you might just be. As for me....I just hope I am ready to go home.....
TSA is not the answer...PROFILE them ALL...moms, dads, kids, EVERYONE....period.
Political Correctness id the problem...so what if you hurt their feelings....we could ALL live if we did hurt their feelings.
BTW, I personally knew the people killed in 9-11 attacks....this crap does NOT work.
rmchambers
rmchambers 1
Considering the operators running it, they are lucky to catch anything, other than their own stealing stuff out of bags.
thompson36532
Peter Thompson 1
TSA stealing? That's a new one for me though I can't, in all honesty, say it doesn't happen. I CAN say it's never happened to me, my wife, my mother, my brothers, my sisters, my in-laws, my friends, and I can go on an on.........
wheresbaronnow
Ronald Hewitt 0
All Muslims are not terrorists but all terrorists are muslim
davidrbarnes
David Barnes 7
Timothy McVeigh.
ukflight
William Hall 2
rmchambers
rmchambers 0
I'd be interested to see a breakdown of terrorist attacks listed with their perpetrators. I think Ronald is on the right track.. change all to almost all and he'd be spot on.
thompson36532
Peter Thompson 0
True on the first assumption and somewhat true on the 2nd.....amazing what a twist of wording can produce, isn't it? :)
MLSellers
Mildred Sellers 0
Lets get a little baby pig & put one on every airplane..............
Think this would work better than Profiling?
thompson36532
Peter Thompson 1
After being in banking for 20 years and law enforcement before then, I've got to disagree with you on profiling. In my opinion, profile every group out there who has made it a point to do America harm. On the other hand, why profile American grandma's from the heartland? There's a small, select group of folks who wish harm on our country and if we have to profile all from that select group, I'm all for it.
MACGSO
MACGSO -3
Or give everyone on board a ham sandwich? If someone doesn't want to eat it, then "I'm sorry, but your ticket price will be refunded - right after the FBI finishes interviewing you."
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 2
So if they're Jewish they can't fly?

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 3
Bad as I hate to say it, there wasn't a Dept. of Homeland Security or TSA on 911

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 5
"The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is a cabinet department of the United States federal government, created in response to the September 11 attacks, and with the primary responsibilities of protecting the United States and its territories (including protectorates) from and responding to terrorist attacks, man-made accidents, and natural disasters. "
Argue with Wiki, not me and there definitely was no TSA. Don't know about you but I lived it. I believe I know about it and I could care less about NYC. The only good feeling I ever had about that part of the world was the good feeling I got when it was disappearing behind me.

[This poster has been suspended.]

AWAAlum
AWAAlum 6
I listen, PAL. You would do yourself a service if you would read and not post.

November 19, 2001
Transportation Security Administration, Date founded

[This poster has been suspended.]

mb77477
Marie Benham 0
I strongly believe in the right of free speech BUT there should be some COMMON SENSE, an agreed upon limit with all kinds of media and communications -- Diane Sawyer comes on the evening news and they show how you just wiggle a car window until it opens enough to gain access inside. The next morning I discover some moron has done exactly that trying to get into our vehicle parked in the driveway outside.

You never truly know what someone else is thinking, thus you may know know those who might secretly be so inclined towards criminality or even home-grown terrorism. (Well, some are obvious but not all.)

Every time I see articles or news reports like these that provide criminally-inclined minds (not just terrorists) good examples of how to evade standard attempts keep citizens safe, I wonder that we are even still alive -- our country is so good at giving info like this to everyone. There is a portion of the criminal contingent who may be fairly unimaginative, at least until they are told and shown exactly how to do this.

All I am trying to convey is that there should be noted a subtle difference between free speech as opposed to shouting to the entire world (hope your enemies or fiends are not paying attention) and providing anyone who knows how to read the information to destroy our way of life.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
You're right, Marie, and I've often thought the very same thing. The only thing is, just about anything you want to find out about is on the internet. So it practically becomes a moot point.
mb77477
Marie Benham 2
Agreed about the internet. There is no simple solution.

[This poster has been suspended.]

scooke7
Steve Cooke 4
Except that EL AL and Tel Aviv Airport security think anyone who has brown skin is a Muslim.
Ben Gurion Airport is the only one where I saw a brown skin foreigner (Indian, I think) finding it more difficult getting OUT of Israel than getting IN. I guess even in Israel there some people as stupid & clueless as some in TSA.
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 1
That's the danger of blind profiling, I guess. It would be interesting to know the percentage of these errors versus the percentage of false readings by machines, like not catching dangerous objects or "seeing" dangerous objects that do not exist.
thompson36532
Peter Thompson 0
Profile what needs to be profiled to keep the rest of us law abiding folks safe. If Americans need profiling, by all means do it. If middle easterners need profiling, by all means do it. There's no such thing as "blind profiling" in law enforcement or there wasn't when I was in it.....you profile what needs to be profiled.

[This poster has been suspended.]

wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 3
How do you determine if someone is a muslim when they buy a ticket?

[This poster has been suspended.]

wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 5
Since when the religion of a person is indicated in passports of democratic countries?

[This poster has been suspended.]

wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 4
Who says that Molly Oxlong from Kitchener, Ontario is not a muslim?
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 4
Why not just a yellow crescent sown on their clothes, like the nazies did with the jews. (sarcasm alert)

[This poster has been suspended.]

wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 2
And being muslim is a race?

[This poster has been suspended.]

wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 3
Sorry folks, I forgot, we're not supposed to feed the trolls.

[This poster has been suspended.]

gma92
gma92 6
don't be a troll
gmcmanus
gmcmanus 8
Why? Are all Muslims radical? In case you haven't noticed Phil, most all religions have radical groups that cause destruction and use terrorism in some way or another.
PaulN2719
PaulN2719 5
Just like not all Christians are right wing conservative homophobes...but you'd never know that to listen to the mainstream media!
preacher1
preacher1 0
No, you won't hear that listening to the media but they'll sure jump in on the Westboro bandwagon anytime they pull off anything.

[This poster has been suspended.]

JetMech24
JetMech24 8
Right, white guys with red hair just park vans full explosives at federal buildings instead, that's sooo much better. Grow up Mike.
preacher1
preacher1 2
They may not be hijacking and crashing planes yet, but Foley's executioner was a Brit, and they are saying that may foreigners have gone into the ranks of ISIS. It's gonna get interesting.
rmchambers
rmchambers 1
The UK government have already stated that a large number of UK born jihadists have gone over for training and are now back in the UK. They are in for a rough ride.
preacher1
preacher1 -1
Well, the denying Muslims boarding is not the only thing El Al does, BUT, right, wrong, or indifferent, they haven't had a hijacking. Giving the TSA devil it's due, since it's formation, they have either, but they are a hell of a lot more expensive.
preacher1
preacher1 0
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 7
I don't know about any denying muslims boarding by El Al or any other airline that flies into Tel Aviv, but I do know that Israel relies a lot less on machines, but more on people trained to observe the passengers. Of course, selling machines to the government is a lot more profitable than to train qualified personnel.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
As recently as ISIS activities topping the news, there are reports of at least two Americans among its members. And the animal who beheaded James Foley spoke with a British accent.

There goes your useless profiling idea.
JJ7
JJ Johnson -1
The Israel State airline EL AL has been dealing with terrorists way before we in America had a clue. They profile young Muslim Arab men. The TSA is feel good but basically worthless politically correct security theater.

Border jumping Mexicans fly without ID however. We look like clowns. We will pay for it. Soon. End of story.
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 2
And how do they know that Johnny Appleseed from Dayton Ohio is not a muslim? Profiling based on stereotypes does not work. What EL AL actually do is behavioural screening, and that works.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 2
It's criminal how we treat one another and our home known as Earth.
fproszek
framk proszek 0
So why are you telling everybody? I'm a citizen flyer and was doing just fine without this knowledge. I trust that since YOU folks in charge know of the problem you are quietly fixing it. Remember when the New Your times published a story about how our CIA was tracking osama bin laden's satellite cell phone? The next day every cell phone within 20 miles of bin laden was destroyed. Why did they publish that info? The editor and owner are lucky I am not in charge, they would never be seen again.
fproszek
framk proszek 0
I read the 9/11 report. The airlines were warned of the pilot cabin door's weakness. They claimed it would have been too costly and time consuming to strengthen the doors! I'm a handyman, I'll reinforce that door in 12 minutes with a battery drill, a latch, and a few pieces of strap steel. Or, How about the pilot release sleepy gas to stop a takeover? I had it when I was 8 yrs old with no effects.

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